"Anonymouse. going back to Jonathon Crossly. As he does his Reverse movement ( which is a Fallaway plus ) you will see readable choriography. each step is clean and on the beat."

WRONG. Once again, you post based on your imagination, in direct conflict with the FACTS.

The FACT is that the interval between his 2nd and 3rd steps is only about 80% of a beat. Which means they can't both be on beats.

"If you were to see some steps being blended in with each other and the music. that to an adjudicator would be unaceptable."

On the contrary ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE INTOLERABLE FOR FOXTROT. You still grossly misunderstand the entire dance: it is not about stepping on beats, it is about DANCING YOUR BODY - NOT YOUR FEET! Trying to step on beats during most figures would absolutely destroy the musicality of the body movement, which is where it is at for standard.

"The same can be seen with the other competitors in the Wave."

More gross ignorance. A wave has ordinary SQQ timing, which is to say that ONLY THE MIDDLE STEP FALLS ON A BEAT. The others DO NOT.

Phil, I don't look at the feather step as having a hover but rather a drift(the slowing down of the body in flight by gravity) but to have drift you have to have flight,so I think it is more important to concentrate on body swing and flight and let the drift take care of itself. To me a hover is when we sometimes' not allways mechanicaly control the timing of drift rather than let it just happen? You have to be a very good dancer to do this. Doug

Hi Doug
Maybe i'm using an inappropriate word. However, what i'm trying to do is this (and i may be wrong to try to do this - please comment if you think so): In a sequence of steps like feather - reverse turn - feather finish - 3step, which is a nice basic sequence we start our routine with, i always think of the 2nd and 3rd steps of each figure as the 'showy' steps(especially 2nd step). Step 1 provides the drive and body flight (or i suppose the opportunity for body flight).
So i want those showy steps to last as long as possible. So i get to step 2 a little early and then make it last as long as i'm able. I do the same on reverse turn, feather finish (not sure about 3-step).
Now maybe i shouldn't be doing this, but it feels nice.
This is the only way i can explain the 'hover' or drift i'm trying for.

"So i get to step 2 a little early and then make it last as long as i'm able."

I think you do want to drift out the second step and delay arriving on third just about as long as you comfortably can.

However, I don't think you should be trying to arrive on step 2 any earlier than beat three. The extra time comes from placing step three at least a half beat after beat four, NOT from hitting step 2 early.

Hi Phil, What you are doing seems great to me providing you dance the 2cd step on the third beat? I am suprised that you are only just going into prechapionship with your knowledge and understanding,just don't dance slow quick slow. I still feel that body flight should be your main consideration. Good Luck Doug

You're right - body flight is my top priority.
From the discussions on this topic, it seems i simply have to delay my dancing by half a beat relative to what i've been doing up till now (at least for feather -reverse turn - feather finish combination)
I tried this on monday, and it felt a little un-natural, but i'll do it again tonight. But it's body flight i'm really working on.
One of my weaknesses has been not carrying my weight through my foot properly, and trying to dance the next step before completing the current one. This comes from years of racket sports where you have to think about the next shot all the time. WHOOPS - is that another topic

Phil. That delay on the second step is controlled by delaying the foot that is behind you with a bit of foot pressure.. If you look at the Feather Step on this site you will see it clearly. Which brings me to. The foot that is the most looked at, is the foot that is behind, lady or man. That is why they say Stand on the standing foot longer. Move it too quickly and the line of the legs is gone. The picture is lost.Latin is the same and is called a leg line. They do not want to see a foot dangling on the end of a leg.
Body flight. Not mentioned in the technique book. All that is needed is to move the weight which is over the heel to the ball and the now moving foot takes over going ahead of the body. If you look at Timothy Howson, which we can easily find . I do not see the body in front of the feet. Whoever it was thought of the words body flight most likely saw dancers sitting over the heel and the supporting heel not leaving the floor at the correct time Which should be as the heel of the passing foot passes the toe of the standing foot. Which to anybody who has been in the British Armed Forces and had their share of Ceremomial Drill. Would compare the Slow March ( that's the one they do at military funerals ) with the foot work in ballroom. To quote the book. As the Right foot passes the toe of the Left foot, the Left heel will be released from the floor. Page 9.
Any playing about with the timing is up to the individual. What you will see is at the end of beat four on an (and) count, is the body coming into a balanced or neutral position before the Reverse Turn is commenced right on the first beat of the new bar of music.
Ladies move your leg before your body when going backwards. That also goes for the man. Stretch and then move. If anybody can see any of the couples on the video doing anything other than the correct technique as laid out in the book. feel free to say and point out where.

"Phil. That delay on the second step is controlled by delaying the foot that is behind you with a bit of foot pressure.. "

The delay into the third step is caused by simply keeping the body moving longer.

That in turn delays the natural placement of the first step, which delays the natural placement of the next second step, which is what makes it possible to draw out the following third step.

Get ahead at one point, and you are dead - no amount of trying to use your moving foot as a brake is going to fix BAD BODY TIMING. Wheras if your body timing is proper, there's no need to use pressure on the moving foot to slow it down. THE ISSUE IS THE TIMING OF THE BODY MOVEMENT *NOT* THE TIMING OF THE FOOT. That will take care of itself without thought once the body action is right.

"Body flight. Not mentioned in the technique book. All that is needed is to move the weight which is over the heel to the ball and the now moving foot takes over going ahead of the body."

But that does not constitute "taking over"! The body still has a job to do - the BODY MUST KEEP PROGRESSING. Otherwise you don't have any body flight. Let me say that again: IF THE PROGRESS OF YOUR BODY *STOPS* OVER THE BALL OF THE STANDING FOOT, YOU DO NOT HAVE BODY FLIGHT!

"If you look at Timothy Howson, which we can easily find . I do not see the body in front of the feet."

He is briefly at the start of the action. More importantly though, his body is obviously getting FAR AHEAD OF HIS STANDING FOOT, AT A TIME WHEN HIS MOVING FOOT IS STILL NOT BEARING ANY WEIGHT.

"the supporting heel not leaving the floor at the correct time Which should be as the heel of the passing foot passes the toe of the standing foot."

So are you saying Tim did it wrong when he picked his heel up earlier on the feather? I happen to have been told to get it up before that, just as he did, and told so by one of his teachers...

"To quote the book."

You quote the book describing an action that is WITHOUT RISE. The case in question has different footwork by virtue of the FACT THAT IT HAS RISE. Despite having this problem with your cite pointed out at least a dozen times, you keep trying to ignore it and pretend the book says something about RISING ACTIONS that is simply doesn't.

"before the Reverse Turn is commenced right on the first beat of the new bar of music."

WRONG AGAIN. With Tim only placing the third step 4/10 of a beat before beat one, it is quite unlikely that's he's already beginning the reverse turn on beat one! He needs some time to arrive on that foot before he can take the next step!

"Ladies move your leg before your body when going backwards."

Move the foot, from BELOW THE KNEE ONLY. You had better not be moving the leg yet. Especially in the foxtrot, where your body would generally NEVER HAVE EVEN STOPPED MOVING, thus it's obviously moving BEFORE the foot!

"If anybody can see any of the couples on the video doing anything other than the correct technique as laid out in the book. feel free to say and point out where."

They are doing the correct technique as in the book, but they ARE NOT DOING THE OUTRAGEOUSLY SILLY THINGS YOU CLAIM THAT THEY ARE!

Who said the body stands still over the standing foot. What we will see at the end of the beat four on an (and) count is the body coming into a balance position or a neutral position before the Reverse Turn is comenced. In case you are not aware we have Sway CBM and CBMP all of which are taking place continuously.
No presure on the rear foot. What do you think Sway does or is doing.
Here you go again. Get your act together. Of course the body gets ahead of the foot you are standing on. It is not in front of the one that is moving. yours is so you have said, to the point of imbalance, and then you catch your weight. Rubbish. Do you see Timothy off balance and falling. The lady too. I insist on it. Garbage. I would like you to repeat those instructions for us all to see. On the 17/10 you wrote . You should fall past your standing foot. Do you see anybody on the video falling past their standing foot
Try to understand this. As the foot passes on a Heel Lead the heel will leave the floor. The rise it would have created is canceled out with the following step. If I brought my feet together instead of passing we would show a rise straight up. We learn this in a Bronze Medal Class. So do you see how the rise is lost on a passing step.
You seem to have a problem counting the beats. which you have previously said that you do not count and don't need to.( Isn' t that terrific advice to pass on ). Crossley does all quicks over four bars of music all on time, then we loose him.
No compettion dancer would do all quicks on a Feather Step. have you changed your mind on that one. On the same thread you made remarks like that, I should get some lessons.
We seem to have forgotten the upper body contact whilst in a normal hold. I seem to remember how you said that Chris and his former partner didn't have a conection at the right area of the chest of each partner which is supposed to be touching. Have you changed your mind on that one. You have looked I hope.

"Who said the body stands still over the standing foot."

So I take it that when you said "All that is needed is to move the weight which is over the heel to the ball and the now moving foot takes over going ahead of the body."

What you really intended to say was that the moving foot passes the body which is continuint to move WELL BEYOND THE STANDING FOOT, INTO IMBALANCE?

Or are you infact still going to try to claim that the body stays balanced, which is to say that the progress STOPS over the ball of the standing foot? You can't have it both ways... either you keep moving, INTO IMBALANCE, or you STOP in order to stay balanced.

"What we will see at the end of the beat four on an (and) count is the body coming into a balance position"

WRONG. On the and after beat four, a skilled dancer still has not yet even placed their moving foot. They stil have another 1/10 beat (Howson) to 1/4 beat (Sinkinson) of travel yet to go before they place step three. And then they have to arrive their body over the foot before they can pass (momentarily) through a position of balance.

"No presure on the rear foot. What do you think Sway does or is doing."

Most would say, "inclining the BODY". Sway has really nothing to do with moving foot pressue, because sway is primarly a characteristic of the BODY. At some points in the sway the leg line will extend the body line, at other points it won't, because the sway is smooth in the body even as the legs change their position in relation to the body in order to create steps. The sway is of course blended over several steps of each cycle.

"Get your act together. Of course the body gets ahead of the foot you are standing on. It is not in front of the one that is moving."

Yes it is, right as the feet are passing. But very soon thereafter the moving foot will catch up and pull ahead of the body.

"Do you see Timothy off balance and falling."

Absolutely! But as he has GOOD AIM in both time and space, he makes it look wonderful!

The problem is that you don't realize that 99% of the time there's only one supporting foot - you let the fact that the moving foot is on the floor mislead you into thinking it is supporting the body. IT ISNT. Whenever there is only ONE STANDING FOOT, and the body is not vertically direclty over that foot, the BODY IS OFF BALANCE. It's a NATURAL PART OF WALKING AND DANCING.

The problem is that you can't recognize this PHYSICAL REALITY. You won't admit something is often balance until you actually see it fall all the way over... which of course a dance who knows how to aim and sustain their movement won't do. But that does not change the FUNDAMENTAL PHYSICAL FACT THEY ARE ACTUALLY FALLING IN UNBALANCED POSITONS MOST OF THE TIME. You only see good dancing; you completely fail to understand what it actually involves.